Jehmu Greene

Jehmu Greene encourages us to listen intentionally and have uncomfortable conversations. She was a progressive Political Analyst at FOX News for over a decade and co-founded Define American, a media and culture organization that works to humanize the immigrant narrative.

Transcript

Jehmu Greene (00:05):

I don't have any delusions that at one point in time this country was perfect. It's that we have a system and a process that was put in place that allowed us to keep moving closer to that promise and we're all trying to get closer to the promise of America. That's what keeps me hopeful.

Ted Roosevelt V (00:30):

Welcome to Good Citizen. I'm Ted Roosevelt. In this episode, we talk to Jehmu Greene, a self-described evangelist for good. She's a passionate leader and an outspoken advocate for fairness and truth. The work that Jehmu does with organizations like We Defend Truth and Define American focuses on inspiring people to action often by deeply engaging with Americans and using the power of storytelling to connect. I'm inspired by her and excited to share a discussion with you. Jehmu's been a progressive political analyst with Fox News for over a decade where, as I tell her during our interview, she brings a calming presence to an often inflammatory content. And as we dig into her work at politics, immigration reform, voter registration and more, we arrive at a theme that really keeps coming up on the podcast: the power of listening. Listening intentionally is one of the keys to healing our polarized country because, as Jehmu says, people just want to be heard. But despite the rapid spread of misinformation and a bombardment of divisive media messages right now, Jehmu Greene remains hopeful, and after you listen to her story and her ideas, you might just find yourself a little more hopeful too.

(01:52):

Jehmu, we're so thrilled to have you on this podcast. You've really spent your career really the last few decades working on a number of key American ideals with your work. You're the CEO of Rock the Vote, you co-founded Define American, and you're now running and co-founded We Defend Truth—all organizations that focus on some really key and important concepts, whether it's voter registration, whether it's immigration policy, whether it's truth in politics. You're a commentator on Fox News, but you're also, you strike me as someone who's never really put ego first. It's not all about you, and as a result we sometimes you don't get seen as much given the quality and the amount of work that you've done, and I'm thrilled to have the opportunity to chat with you to really explore all the amazing work that you've done.

Jehmu Greene (02:49):

Well, thank you. I'm thrilled to have this conversation and it's really just been about putting in the work.

Ted Roosevelt V (02:57):

I'm a believer that the environment at the family dining room table can be an insight into people's approach towards politics, and so I'd love to hear what that environment was like that led you to committing your career and really your life to improving quintessential American ideals.

Jehmu Greene (03:15):

Our dining room table was really loud, and I think a lot of immigrant families have similar experiences where your family is in a country that, especially here in America, where we've got all of these rights and they have just moved mountains to get here. There's a lot of interest and passion around what's going on in politics and so yeah, the dinner conversations in my family were all about politics. It was all about very loud opinions and making sure that your voice is heard, but also not being afraid to have that conversation, have that disagreement with someone who had different ideas than you do.

Ted Roosevelt V (04:09):

I think one of the myths that's maybe a little bit in the back of discourse around American politics, and this is sort of an anecdotal observation, but there's maybe a sense that the longer you've been in this country, the more you care about the country and therefore the louder your voice maybe should be, and in reality, it's often the inverse of that. I say that from a family that's been here for 16 generations and it's easy to take a lot of the rights for granted and not feel that they're as precious and as easily lost. And people that have come to this country like your parents who, as you described, fought so hard to be here, tend to actually hold them in much higher regard and tend to defend them much more aggressively or much more enthusiastically. Does that resonate on some level?

Jehmu Greene (05:04):

Oh, absolutely. I think the appreciation for the rights, I mean also you just have to think of where immigrants are coming from, the countries, the systems that they are fleeing. There is a sense of passion and just love for all that we have to offer as a country that is just front and center and it's very easy, I think to be born here and not appreciate it in the same way as someone who has given up everything they know in many cases, language and family generations and all of their resources to get here. The appreciation is definitely front and center and that passion is there.

Ted Roosevelt V (05:56):

So at what point did you recognize or realize this was something that you wanted to commit your career to or spend time on?

Jehmu Greene (06:03):

I think from an early age I was always outspoken. I was always very much aware of the idea of fairness. It might be because I was the middle child also and would see the disparity in treatment very clearly. When we moved to Austin and in that moment I was five years old and all of the political leadership in Austin were women and we had a mayor who was a woman and went on to be reelected three times in a row, Barbara Jordan. We had a state rep down here, Wilhelmina Delco, who was just doing incredible things around education and I was like, women are political leaders. We belong in leadership. And I think that perspective is really different from what a lot of young five-year-old girls experience, but I wish more of them could have that. But I think the community that I grew up in as far as really diverse immigrant community where my elementary school had a hundred countries represented, the space of that type of diversity really also informed everything that I do.

Ted Roosevelt V (07:36):

Was there a moment where you realized or saw, hey, this experience that I'm having is not the experience that other people are having or even this experience that I'm having isn't persisting in the community that I'm in for some reason?

Jehmu Greene (07:49):

There certainly was a moment when I acutely remember feeling powerless for the first time, and it was when I went to vote for the first time. 18 years old, 1990, Ann Richards was on the ballot, and when I went to cast my ballot, I was told that I wasn't on the list and in that moment when I was denied that opportunity especially to vote for Ann Richards, it was very clear that I did not want anyone else to feel that way, to feel that powerless, that kind of pain moment as some people refer to it, I like to refer to it as a passion moment when everything crystallizes. It came from me personally being denied a right.

Ted Roosevelt V (08:47):

Yeah, and that's such a poignant example just because the first time you vote, particularly if you grow up in a family where politics are important, is such a moment of feeling powerful, of feeling a participant in the country's direction. I can imagine just how difficult that was for you.

Jehmu Greene (09:05):

I cried.

Ted Roosevelt V (09:06):

I bet. I bet.

Jehmu Greene (09:08):

I cried like a baby because I couldn't vote.

Ted Roosevelt V (09:11):

I think the silver lining here is that to some degree it at least sent you with more fervor on your path, which has been one that has gotten so many more people registered to vote, so many more people engaged in the democratic process. You were the CEO of Rock the Vote, which if you grew up—in my late twenties, I mean you couldn't avoid Rock the Vote. I mean they were everywhere and I think it's to this day, one of the most successful voter registration organizations in the country's history. Is that kind of broadly right?

Jehmu Greene (09:46):

I like that you said we were everywhere. We had a just crystal clear focus on wherever young people were. We wanted to put a voter registration, voter education message in front of them and whether that was through their music or convenience stores or where they were shopping, make it almost impossible to avoid the opportunity to participate in the process.

Ted Roosevelt V (10:16):

I've always struggled with why or how the idea of getting more people registered to vote ends up becoming a partisan issue. It's very hard to be opposed, making sure that everybody is registered to vote and that everybody participates in the democratic process. Those should be easy ideals for Americans to get behind, and yet it's extremely difficult.

Jehmu Greene (10:42):

I think it's extremely difficult because once you get into the execution of politics and our two party system and how voter contact is done in the modern age of campaigning, that's where people separate the values and what we should all be aiming for, which is full participation in the process of everyone and just—it's a numbers game. So once you get into the partisan execution of politics, that numbers game, for very unfortunate reasons, takes over. It trumps all of those values of full participation and it's just about the win. Of course, I think anyone who has been in a situation when you have more minds involved, when you have differing opinions involved, knows that the outcome, the product is better, but unfortunately we can't seem to get there politically these days.

Ted Roosevelt V (11:51):

What I find a little disheartening and what you're so good at, and I've seen you in numerous instances talk about staying positive, staying focused on shared values. Do you find that there are ways in which you can talk about things like a more representative democracy that should universally be appealing to Americans, that are more effective and less effective in terms of getting people to get behind that?

Jehmu Greene (12:22):

Well, I think in our current political state, it really starts with listening. It's not even about the ways that you're talking. People have literally just stopped listening. We've stopped hearing and there's just no way we're going to be able to move forward in any productive way. If that remains the case. And the role that the media has played in it, the way that the kind of extremes on both sides of the aisle continue to support that, we're going to have to find a way to break through it to protect our democracy.

Ted Roosevelt V (13:04):

This theme has come up a couple times in previous conversations, this idea of the power of listening. And I think one of the mistakes that people make, particularly people in the political arena make, is that the idea that listening is inaction and telling people what to do is action and in reality, I think you hit the nail on the head: More often, the most persuasive thing you can do is ask questions and listen. Even if you feel like you're not getting your agenda across, you're actually much more likely—it's sort of a classic salesman technique or salesperson technique is if you're asking more questions, you're probably doing a better job convincing someone of what you're doing. Yeah.

Jehmu Greene (13:47):

People just want to be heard.

Ted Roosevelt V (13:49):

People just want to be heard.

Jehmu Greene (13:50):

We all want to be heard and there are shared experiences that we have that can come through listening intentionally that can then help you start to bridge towards having those more difficult conversations and finding common ground. And just kind of, I think that vulnerability or acknowledgement that we're all flawed is also something that is desperately needed in our political leadership right now.

Ted Roosevelt V (14:22):

I was doing some research for this and whenever you are on Fox News or as a commentator, there's just a sense of calm and a search of finding the shared values that everybody has.

Jehmu Greene (14:34):

[excerpt of Fox News broadcast] That is causing us to be so divided and so hateful as a nation and we are to have to get to a point where we can move past his hateful language and get back to the American values that built this country and this president does not represent any of those values as far as I'm concerned.

Fox News speaker (14:53):

We have to leave it there. Jehmu Greene, Mark Tson, thank you so much. [end excerpt]

Jehmu Greene (14:56):

One thing that I've learned in my 13 years as a Fox News contributor is that my colleagues are some of the best communicators in the world. They are very effective in connecting with the audience on shared values. Fear is certainly a shared value that we all have as human beings. So in stepping into that space, it's really important to find a balance and a contrast to be able to operate on that same playing field as, again, some of the best communicators in the world. And I don't think it's a punch for punch, tit for tat. It's showing a different perspective. Bringing my experience to a community, to an audience that has maybe never met someone like me and showing them a possibility that they don't see in their normal viewing has really been a big part of my goal in my time there.

Ted Roosevelt V (16:13):

You went on from Rock the Vote to co-founded Define American and it's focused on immigration issues in the United States. What brought you from voter registration? It's not a huge divide, but over to immigration issues and tell us a little bit about Define American.

Jehmu Greene (16:32):

I think Jose Vargas—the founder of Define American, a Pulitzer Prize winner winning journalist who came out in the New York Times article as an undocumented immigrant—I think he's just one of our national treasures and it was an honor to get to work with him to co-found Define American. My parents, as we discussed, immigrated from Liberia. When their visas ran out and there was a coup happening in their country, they stayed past their visas. My parents were undocumented. Most people have a binary view of what it is and there are immigrants from all over the world here in the US who have not been able to find a path to citizenship. And so yeah, when Jose shared his story, knowing the pain that we felt at times when I was little, when one day my mom would have a job and the next day she wouldn't have a job because there were rumors that there was going to be an INS raid and what that did for how much food was on the table, how much resources we had to survive as a family, I had been through that experience. So Define American has been committed to really changing the conversation around immigration and sharing the stories of immigrants and the contributions they make, using culture to do that, using media to do that. It's really interesting. I feel like the first part of my career was really about grassroots activism and I always saw myself as it's about those one-on-one peer-to-peer conversations, but the role of media and culture and the power of it was something I certainly learned at Rock the Vote and to be able to continue that through the work of Define American has just been an honor. And watching what Jose has been able to build—I think they've been in over a hundred writers' rooms in telling the story of immigrants in a more meaningful, more thoughtful, more real way than the political conversation has been around this super important issue that certainly we wouldn't be who we are as a country without the contributions of immigrants and we need to get back to that. And the fact that Define American has been able to help point us in that direction is truly just one of the things I'm most proud of.

Ted Roosevelt V (19:16):

It's an amazing organization and even the title, "Define American," I think is really very compelling because we're in a moment where as a nation, the definition of what it is to be an American is probably the least settled in this moment in time. There's sort of this—I'm sure during the Civil War there was probably greater divide over this, but at least in the modern era. Is there any relationship between the fact that we seem to have less agreement about what it means to be American today and defending the border with more concern than we have in the past, that this has become really the sense of we're not quite sure who we are, let's put up walls.

Jehmu Greene (20:00):

I think we're living in a time where we have technology and social media that has unfortunately helped to amplify those divisions and where with the push of a button you can mobilize so many more people and so much more division and so much more hate than ever before. But we've gone through periods of struggle between new communities immigrating to our country and it's not something that I think is insurmountable. For me, I think that what has kind of held me together through these very trying times and challenges with our democracy is just keeping an eye on what is the promise of America. And it's something that Barbara Jordan talked a lot about, and as long as we can keep moving closer to the promise of America—I don't have any delusions that at one point in time, in my life or before I was even here, that this country was perfect.

(21:13):

It's that we have a system and a process that was put in place that allowed us to keep moving closer to that promise and whatever I can do as an individual or groups of people, communities can do to recognize that we're all trying to get closer to the promise of America— that's I guess what keeps me hopeful. But I definitely recognize that the challenge is that all of the technology, all of the ways that are very esily accessible for people who don't have those same intentions for our democracy, that perhaps this fight is harder than what has been in the past, but it's not insurmountable.

Ted Roosevelt V (22:03):

Well, that leads us very nicely to what you're doing now, having co-founded We Defend Truth. You get involved with voter registration, you're involved with immigration policy, and now the idea of truth in politics becomes the sort of, I'm presuming kind of a preeminent issue for you to address, to focus your time and energy on. Why is it that you felt like this was the time that we really needed to address this issue?

Jehmu Greene (22:30):

Well, I certainly have spent a good part of the last 13 years talking to a community that was becoming just so isolated in the information that they were receiving and side of the aisle that I found myself on decided to stop talking to people who didn't agree with our policies and that just felt wrong. We're not going to make any progress if you just stop talking. And so the work we do at We Defend Truth is to get truthful information in front of people who have been very specifically targeted by various actors out there with malicious disinformation. And we want to just present the truth to them in a way that connects with them, that engages with them, that validates their concerns. But ultimately the work that we're doing at We Defend Truth is based on the idea that we're not just going to give up on a very large number of Americans who have been targeted with disinformation. We're going to get the truth in front of them.

Ted Roosevelt V (23:52):

Why do you think the ground was so fertile for something like that? Why are there 10 million Americans that believe in the big lie?

Jehmu Greene (23:59):

The focus on the election or climate denial or vaccine disinformation—It's coordinated actors in many ways that overlap on all of these different issues that push out disinformation for financial benefit. And I think it continues to be as we continue to see the divisions just get bigger and bigger politically,

Ted Roosevelt V (24:28):

Well, I think it's a really powerful position for you to take an area to stake out. I do think in progressive politics and in progressive circles, I think progressives could avail themselves to being a little bit more open to the conversation right now, and We Defend Truth has got a lot of very innovative ways of communicating with people. It's not just a matter of let me send a white paper over to someone and hope that they read it and I'm going to bury you in a bunch of facts about why the election wasn't stolen. It's very much meeting people where they are.

Jehmu Greene (25:02):

Yeah, facts don't tend to move people. There's a line by one of my favorite singers, Amos Lee: "freedom is never found by beating someone down to the ground." And it really just touches my soul every time I hear that. I feel like that's where the fight is right now, that both sides think that we can just beat the other side into submission and that's never going to happen.

Ted Roosevelt V (25:33):

There are two questions that we ask everybody on the podcast and the two questions we ask, the first one is, what is one thing everybody can do that can sort of help at this point?

Jehmu Greene (25:47):

I think it starts by being a little uncomfortable. If that is in having a conversation with someone who disagrees with you, or consuming media from sources that are not aligned with all of your ways of thinking and issues you agree with, putting yourself in spaces with people who don't look like you, haven't had the same experience— however you live that kind of stepping out of your comfort zone, it's more important than ever before that we do that. And certainly I think more people who have different lived experiences should step into leadership, should find ways of making sure that their community's voice is heard, whether that is at the school board level and State House. We pay so much attention to what's happening in DC but there are hundreds and hundreds of opportunities for folks to lead in their local communities and we need people who have struggled, who have risen above serious life challenges to be in these positions. And so, get a little bit uncomfortable and step into the political arena would be my two pieces of advice.

Ted Roosevelt V (27:14):

What can we do to encourage more people, particularly more people from diverse backgrounds, diverse, encourage them to engage in the political system?

Jehmu Greene (27:24):

It starts by asking. There's a lot of research out there around who gets asked to run for office and who doesn't, and especially when you look at women running for office, they're not asked. Any one of us who has the ability to make connections to encourage someone to step into the political arena—that simple question or encouragement, when you find someone who's passionate, when you see someone who is willing to put in the work, someone who has courage to say things that are uncomfortable, we need to ask them, we need to encourage them. We each can do that. We each know 5, 10, 20 people in our lives. So I think it also has to start by each of us pulling those new voices and folks from new communities and different lived experiences into the process as well as stepping into it ourselves. But I'm really optimistic.

(28:28):

I think that there's been some positive backlash to some of the negative things we've seen in politics, where you've got more people saying, Hey, I saw the impact of local leadership during the pandemic. I need to get in this arena. I've seen the damage that can be done when someone who doesn't care about a community has a lot of political power. Someone who's not as smart as me, someone who doesn't have the experience as me, and a lot of people are making the decision to get involved as a part of that backlash. So I want to focus on how we ride that wave and continue to move closer to the promise of America.

Ted Roosevelt V (29:12):

Well, that's awesome. And I don't know if we're going to end on a better note than that one, so thank you very, very much. This has been a joy for me to have this conversation with you. We don't have a huge spotlight, but we get a little bit of a spotlight that we can shine on you because I think it's well deserved.

Jehmu Greene (29:27):

Well, thank you. I'm honored and I look forward to staying connected and just thank you for having these conversations. Becuase that's what's going to get us there.

Ted Roosevelt V (29:40):

Good Citizen is produced by the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library's content studio. Thanks so much to Jehmu for taking time to speak with me. I'm moved by the simple point she just made here that it starts by asking. Let's all take some time to think about those talented, engaged, hardworking people that we all know and encourage them to step into the political arena. If we can pull new voices in, those fresh perspectives might make a real difference. You can find out more about Jehmu at jehmugreene.com. That's J E H M U G R E E N E dot com. If you liked this episode, please leave us a review. It's something that really helps us reach new listeners. And make sure you're following the podcast so you don't miss a new one when they drop. Good Citizen is produced by the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library in collaboration with the Future of StoryTelling and Charts & Leisure. You can learn more about TR's upcoming presidential library at trlibrary.com.