Michael D. Smith
Michael D. Smith reflects on leadership and shares his enthusiasm for the new Climate Corps. The CEO of AmeriCorps, he is deeply committed to community service.
Transcript
Michael D. Smith (00:06):
Service allows you to see each other's humanity, and anyone who has been around community or national service for any amount of time sees this thing that happens. You do not care if someone is wearing a red MAGA hat or wearing a Biden hat. You are just trying to save, rebuild your community. And so there is something that happens that breaks down these walls and barriers.
Ted Roosevelt (00:28):
Welcome to Good Citizen, a podcast from the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library. I'm Ted Roosevelt. Today I'm speaking with Michael D. Smith, the CEO of AmeriCorps. In our conversation, I discovered that a virtual army of Americans, 200,000 of them from all backgrounds, serve our country as AmeriCorps members. They build homes, tutor in schools, assist nonprofits, or even fight wildfires. It's civic engagement at its peak. As their chief and champion, Michael shares his reflections on leadership and his enthusiasm for the new climate corps. I'm excited to share this conversation with you.
(01:15):
Michael, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm thrilled to have this conversation with you.
Michael D. Smith (01:20):
Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to it.
Ted Roosevelt (01:23):
So Michael, we're going to talk about AmeriCorps in a second, but I want to start with your childhood and your background. You've spent your entire career in public service, really in kind of the truest sense of the word. And one of my favorite business school professors used to preach the value of service leadership, and in a lot of ways you've embodied that idea in your career. What was the catalyst for you or what was the sort of part of your childhood or your upbringing that your career ended up being dedicated to public service?
Michael D. Smith (01:56):
I grew up in a low income, Black neighborhood. My parents were both 16 years old when I was born. We depended on government services and benefits. We did not have a whole lot of money or resources. I know what it's like to have the lights turned off. I know what it's like to wake up in the morning and the hot water's not hot, and I know what it's like to watch a mother struggle. And what made all the difference from our family was, my mother had the brilliance to send me to my local Boys and Girls Club. And she's told me time and time again, it wasn't rocket science, I was just looking for a cheap daycare and they had a really good cheap daycare. And I think what she didn't know was she got a whole other village for her son. She got these people that lifted me up, that loved me, that kept me in line. I remember Carol, who was my mentor, I would get off the bus and I would come to the Boys and Girls Club and she would say, "Mikey's home!"
(02:43):
And from a very early age, I found these people—whether it was Mama Morgan who taught me how to cook in the kitchen, Tony Malone who taught me to play pool in the game room, Marilyn who taught me how to fax in the front office when I had some of my first jobs. I remember these people who certainly were not getting rich, were not looking to get famous, but had dedicated their lives to make sure kids like me could dream dreams bigger than I could ever imagine, that they could ever imagine. They were my heroes. They were my early heroes, and I wanted to do what they did. I wanted to mirror it, I wanted to replicate it. So very early on, I knew that that was the career path that I wanted and I've been blessed beyond measure to never work a job that I didn't love and to never work a job that wasn't about giving back to communities like the one that I grew up in.
Ted Roosevelt (03:32):
That's an amazing story and I think one of the takeaways for me is that growing up in an environment where you talk about not having hot water at various points or having electricity, I mean it's a soup that's a recipe for resentment in a lot of ways. And it sounds like you were surrounded by a lot of love, a lot of people that really cared about you, and I think that's just amazing that it sort of set you on this really positive path.
Michael D. Smith (03:57):
When you said it's a soup that's set up for resentment, I thought you were going to say it's a soup that's set up for resilience because I actually think that's what it is.
Ted Roosevelt (04:06):
Definitely.
Michael D. Smith (04:07):
You are tried by fire. It teaches you grit, determination, hard work, hustle. The other thing I remember there was a politician who won't be named some years back that said kids growing up in poor communities don't see people working.
(04:21):
And I remember— I heard that, I was like, okay, my grandmother worked at a factory her whole life while raising six kids and stepkids, breaking her back, and then still had time to come home and cook Sunday dinner for anybody in the neighborhood. I watched people who did not have anything give their last dimes to take care of one another. And so I saw this community that, while we didn't have a lot of financial resources, we were rich in love, we were rich in belonging, we were rich in the sense of community. And so yes, those things that might push resentment in others created a fire in my belly and created for me such a love for communities like the one that I grew up in.
Ted Roosevelt (05:02):
That's great. It's wonderful and I appreciate your reframing of that. You're right to point out that it's often the people with the least that give relative the most.
(05:12):
And it sounds like that was the experience that you had in your childhood.
Michael D. Smith (05:16):
It absolutely was.
Ted Roosevelt (05:18):
You're now the CEO of AmeriCorps and it's an enormous organization, but not necessarily as well-known as some other organizations. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about it?
Michael D. Smith (05:30):
Well, AmeriCorps is the federal agency for volunteering and service. We have the simple mission of how do we strengthen communities, transform lives, and foster civic engagement through the power of service. We're celebrating our 30th anniversary, our 30th birthday this year. In 1993, President Clinton signed the legislation to create this new federal agency and in the fall of 1994, the first class of about 20,000 AmeriCorps members went to work. And the idea back then was very simple. we don't have enough tax revenue to pay all of the people to do all of the things that our communities need, whether it's the challenges or the opportunities that they're facing, but there is this unique American spirit where people are willing to reach down deep and take care of one another no matter what's going on.
(06:16):
And there are some people that are willing to get paid a whole lot less to do a lot more for a year or for two years. And so if we could tap into that spirit of service, we could make a difference on the environment, on education, on employment pathways, on disaster response, on food insecurity, and that's the promise of AmeriCorps. So if you fast forward 30 years later from 1993, today we have about 200,000 AmeriCorps members and AmeriCorps senior volunteers that serve in nearly 40,000 locations all across the country. And what I love about AmeriCorps is we do not have some model that we create here in Washington and deploy it to the rest of the country. Every single community gets to decide how can we use these resources to bring in this core of passionate homegrown talent sometimes or people who want to come into our community to make a difference on the challenges that we care about most.
(07:11):
What I'm also excited about is the fact that we also now have 1.3 million alum and actually millions more seniors that continue to do extraordinary work in their communities. They are members of the House, members of the Senate, they work in the White House, they work in Hollywood, they work in corporate America, and they took this one year or two years where they got a spark of service and they've turned it into a lifetime of social action no matter where they go.
Ted Roosevelt (07:36):
I have to point out that two members of the Good Citizen podcast team are alum of AmeriCorps, so I can confirm they're out there and they're doing good work.
Michael D. Smith (07:47):
We are infiltrating society and we are a better society because of it.
Ted Roosevelt (07:52):
You mentioned the service and how they're sort of helping other people, but I think an important part of AmeriCorps is—and this has been borne out in numerous scientific papers—is the positive feedback for the volunteer that there are a lot of benefits to them. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Michael D. Smith (08:08):
Ted, I'm glad that you asked that question. I think if you go back and you ask President Clinton and the folks that were around 30 years ago, they were excited about the community impact that was going to happen. They were also excited about how these folks would come together and build relationships across differences. But I don't think anybody would've had an idea of the profound impact that AmeriCorps service has on those that serve. You said it: we have studies that shows it increases physical health, mental health, it decreases social isolation, it increases social cohesion. We also know that AmeriCorps has become an accelerator on your path to career. So I tell young people all the time, alright, you might do AmeriCorps and make a little less than you could if you go to that private sector entity, but we are seeing AmeriCorps members gain experiences, leadership opportunities, learn new skills that are allowing them to leap ahead of their peers when they go into their careers. And our data actually shows the vast majority of them end up staying in the social sector. So that City Year AmeriCorps member that started as a tutor mentor, we've got principals across the country now that are our former City Year members. And if you talk to AmeriCorps alum, whether they did it when they were 18 or they did it when they were 80, they will often tell you that they gained so much more out of their service than they thought they gave to their community.
Ted Roosevelt (09:26):
I love that idea. And there's a little bit of a barbell in terms of ages of people that are at AmeriCorps—that there are a lot of young people in the kind of 18 and maybe some older folks that are finished with their career and there's a little bit of a dip in the middle as people are focused on their own careers, their families, they're may be a little bit more busy. But that younger group of kind of 18, 20 year olds—what's really interesting to me at this point is that you're seeing and you're hearing more and more about Americans kind of under the age of 35 that are feeling disengaged.
(09:57):
They're feeling like they're not a part of the civic life. They don't see themselves reflected in politics. They don't think change is necessarily happening fast enough. And because of this disengagement, there's a little bit of a weakening of the social fabric that's happening particularly in that generation. And it seems to me that AmeriCorps plays a critical role in re-engaging them in the social fabric. Do you think that's true?
Michael D. Smith (10:22):
It is absolutely true. People ask me all the time, am I worried about this incoming generation? Are they apathetic? Are they going to fall off? Are they just going to be on Instagram and TikTok all the time? And I think if you look at the past 10 years, we shouldn't be worried. After George Floyd was killed during the midst of the pandemic, this next generation showed up en mass to demand change—serious policy change and serious policy reform.
(10:48):
If you looked at the gun violence epidemic, this generation has showed up and is demanding change. If you look at the climate challenges that we're having, this generation has shown up. I think what AmeriCorps does is after the protest, after the calling people to action, we give you an on-ramp to actually roll up your sleeves and continue to do something about the challenges that you face. Currently, AmeriCorps has about 15,000 folks that are working in climate and we're proud to be the hub of President Biden's new American Climate Corps. A lot of young people are talking about this idea of climate anxiety that they are just overwhelmed. They're talking about, I don't know if I want to have children. I don't know what my future holds. And so we believe that this is an opportunity for you not to get so bogged down and what might be, but have an opportunity to own the challenges, to own the opportunities and to be a part of that solution for the short term and eventually for the long term.
(11:47):
Because what often happens for AmeriCorps is we create this path from what I consider to be charity to justice. You might come in serving at a food bank and then years later you have taken what you've learned about your community that you've learned about the problems of homelessness and food insecurity, and all of a sudden you're working in a political office or you're working for a nonprofit organization where you're designing and pushing policy that are changing the situation on the systemic issues that are facing our communities. And so we are proud to be that on-ramp for folks to get in the arena and to do something about the challenges that they're facing.
Ted Roosevelt (12:25):
You talked about a couple times in your last answer, the idea of climate corps, the American Climate Corps that Biden talked about in the State of the Union—which you got to be happy with because I know getting anything in the State of the Union address is a major deal, so congratulations on that.
Michael D. Smith (12:39):
Can you see this smile?
Ted Roosevelt (12:40):
Yeah. [laughter]
Michael D. Smith (12:42):
Yes. We are thrilled that the president asked this agency to be the hub, working with six other federal agencies on this groundbreaking American Climate Corps initiative. And of course, it was wonderful to see the president talk about his sustained and ongoing commitment to responding to the climate crisis that we're seeing and the fact that he wants to triple the investment over the next decade.
Ted Roosevelt (13:08):
You've talked a lot about climate justice as having to be a key part of any climate plan. I think one of the things that can be a challenge here is that everybody might agree that climate justice is important, but it can become a kind of platitude in itself and it doesn't have a clear definition of what exactly is climate justice. What does it look like? Do you have a cohesive definition for climate justice?
Michael D. Smith (13:34):
This is a journey that I've been on myself. I came from leading President Obama's My Brother's Keeper initiative where I was thinking about the systemic inequities that boys and young men of color face. I'm thinking about the school to prison pipeline. I'm thinking about gun violence. I'm thinking about how young men of color are kept out of employment, oftentimes intentionally. And so, so often the work that I've done, climate felt like an issue for somebody else. Like, yes, it's important, I want the planet to be here, but I've got to work on saving these young men right now who don't know if they're going to make it to their 20th birthday. And the more time that I have spent with climate activists—more and more, by the way, who are coming from communities of color—I have learned once again, the biggest challenges that we're facing of climate disproportionately impact communities of color. You look at heat deserts, you look at buildings that are suffering from lead, paint or water that is filled with lead.
(14:32):
You look at buildings that need to be retrofitted with solar. You look at the sites where so much of the climate waste has gone. And if you look at all of these issues, so often the people that are bearing the brunt are the folks that are already challenged by systemic inequity. And so if we are going to do something about the climate crisis, we have to also think about this as the canary in the coal mine. Or, you know, we used to think about this as the idea of the curb cut philosophy that Angela Glover Blackwell likes to talk about so much, right? Back in the 1970s when they decided we needed to create curb cuts in the sidewalks so people with wheelchairs could navigate the sidewalks, no one thought about the fact that that would benefit a mother that was pushing a stroller, that would benefit a senior that had a walker.
(15:18):
If you start with those that are most impacted, the societal benefits affect everyone else. And that's how we approach this work in the Biden administration and that's how we approach this work at AmeriCorps.
Ted Roosevelt (15:30):
You're absolutely right that disenfranchised communities are impacted by climate disproportionately, and you didn't mention things like asthma rates. I mean, it really is, in so many different ways. And the challenge for climate in particular is that people always care about it, but it's issue number 10 on their list. There's just other more pertinent issues. But there is something about the fact that the folks that are being impacted the most really do need to be engaged and helped and supported here. And that kind of bumps it up the list of priorities. How do you feel like young people can become encouraged to become more actively involved in their communities? Obviously participating with AmeriCorps is a big part of that, but is there a larger call to action that you'd like to make?
Michael D. Smith (16:15):
Well, so beyond being focused on getting more AmeriCorps members to serve in communities, our agency is actually responsible for the president's call to service. So we run the Martin Luther King Jr. Day of Service, the National Day of Service. We also run the 9/11 day of service. We have a volunteer generation fund, so nonprofit organizations can get resources to help them to recruit and manage volunteers. We run the Volunteering and Civic Life in America study that comes out every other year in partnership with the US Census Bureau, for instance. We just found that during the pandemic period, we saw for the first time ever a dip in the number of Americans that say they volunteer with nonprofits organizations formally on a regular basis. We saw 7% drop. We've been doing this for 20 years, the numbers stay exactly the same, but we saw a 7% drop.
(17:04):
That study also showed that the number of Americans that said that they volunteer informally—neighbor-helping-neighbor type volunteering—that stayed steady and in many communities even went up.
Ted Roosevelt (17:14):
Any explanation for the 7% drop?
Michael D. Smith (17:16):
So that study was done during the pandemic period. And so our hope, our hope is it is a blip. Because obviously so many people volunteer through their schools and school activities were canceled. A lot of nonprofits were turning vulnerable folks away. We've noticed, even for AmeriCorps, we are still working hard to bring our seniors back who were told not to come in and volunteer during that time, even though I have great stories—ask me about Grammy Fran from Maine who did not stop volunteering—and so we're hoping it's a blip. But there are other trends that make me worry that if we are not careful, if we do not innovate, if we do not study why people are coming away, if we look at this next generation and they distrust of traditional institutions, the next time we run this study, we may see it the same. So we see this as an urgent wake up call that we cannot become complacent in what it means to bring people into these organizations.
Ted Roosevelt (18:20):
So since you've mentioned Grammy Fran from Maine, I'm going to ask you to tell me that story.
Michael D. Smith (18:27):
Grammy Fran is one of my favorite human beings. I met her when I was in Maine, this must be about a year and a half ago. Grammy Fran is in her early eighties. She first captivated me with her story: Grammy Fran was an Irish immigrant who came here in her early twenties as a nun, and she's dedicated her whole life to service. So Grammy Fran is a part of our AmeriCorps seniors program, our AmeriCorps seniors foster grandparents where they work in schools and underserved communities as added supports. They might do one-on-one tutoring with young people, provide supports that the teachers need. And Grammy Fran told me that during the pandemic, her principal called her and said, "do not come here tomorrow.
(19:12):
We are shutting down. You can no longer work with your students because we are going all virtual." And Grammy Fran said, I refuse. I refuse not to see my students. And she said—and I'm not even going to attempt to do her beautiful Irish accent— but she said, she's like, I didn't know how to use that tablet thing, but I was going to teach myself and figure it out. So Grammy Fran taught herself how to use an iPad. Then she taught the other grandparents how to use the iPad, and within a couple of weeks they were virtual foster grandparents, working with the schools in Maine. She then went a step further. That summer when the kids were out of school, Grammy Fran created a virtual arts and crafts program—and I told her that she shouldn't have done this, but she took her tiny little stipend and brought art and some craft supplies and then delivered them to doorsteps of teachers to hand them out to the kids.
(20:05):
And I said to Grammy Fran, I was like, how do you do this? You don't have a whole lot. And she said, I have been given so much and I'm always going to give it back every opportunity I get. And those are the people that I get to see every single day. And it's why I think I have the best job in the federal government.
Ted Roosevelt (20:23):
One of the things that at least I keep hearing quite a bit about are people that have been highly polarized, that it diminishes the more they interact with other people, people with different political ideologies than them. And it seems to me that one thing I didn't hear you talk about was the—I don't know if this is a word, but depolarization of people that might have
Michael D. Smith (20:46):
It's a word now.
Ted Roosevelt (20:46):
Yep, we'll call it a word. But maybe the uniting of people that happens from different political ideologies that happens just through the act of volunteering.
Michael D. Smith (20:57):
Service allows you to see each other's humanity, and anyone who has been around community or national service for any amount of time sees this thing that happens. One of my earliest experiences was helping to bring City Year to Washington DC before I even came to this agency. And you would see City Year members take a girl who grew up in rural Iowa, maybe had never met a Black or brown person in her life, had only grown up with certain ideologies. Then she meets a black girl from Anacostia who probably never met anyone who looks like her. 10 years later, they're in each other's weddings, they are fast friends, they have challenged each other's belief systems. And you see this all the time. It just allows you to come out of yourself, see each other's humanity. When you're in the trenches together— I see this all the time with our disaster response work.
(21:45):
You are mucking and gutting houses after a hurricane, you are responding to a fire or a flood. You do not care if someone is wearing a red MAGA hat or wearing a Biden hat. You are just trying to save, rebuild your community. And so there is something that happens that breaks down these walls and barriers.
Ted Roosevelt (22:05):
I've heard you talk about your job as the only nonpartisan job in the federal government. Do you feel sort of support from both sides of the aisle?
Michael D. Smith (22:14):
We have overwhelming support from both sides of the aisle. So my introduction to this agency is I worked for Jean and Steve Case, the Case Foundation, who started AOL. And Jean Case was chair of President George W. Bush's Council on Service and Civic Participation. So my introduction to this agency was a president, George W. Bush, that grew this agency, that took it over from President Clinton. President Clinton personally asked him, make sure you expand this. And President George W. Bush, who loved this work, he would actually do these tarmac visits every time he landed in a different city, he would meet an AmeriCorps member and give them a President's Volunteer Service Award. And so I saw how that administration, and the Points of Light Foundation, for instance, continues to lead this work. And during the previous administration that maybe wasn't as supportive of this agency, it was a bipartisan coalition on the hill that made sure that this agency actually grew our budget during those years. And so if you go on the Hill right now, you will meet folks from both sides of the aisle that are a part of the National Service Caucus that have seen community and national service be the game changer in their communities and they support it tooth and nail.
(23:28):
And so that is a wonderful thing. When folks are talking about polarization, when they're talking about divides, I'm like, come travel with me and see America at its best. I get to see that with political and elected leaders, and I also get to see it with Americans coming together across all sorts of ideologies.
Ted Roosevelt (23:45):
You spent your life in public service, you're very charismatic, you're very inspiring. You must get asked the question all the time about elected office. What do you say to that question?
Michael D. Smith (24:00):
I am so glad that I am seeing so many young people choose to go into elected service. When I was younger, I thought it was a path that I wanted to take. I went to intern for my congressman who had been my mayor, Richie Neil from my hometown of Springfield, Massachusetts. I met him through my Boys and Girls Club and he said, you should think about coming to intern for me one day.
(24:21):
And I was like, I did, and I did at 16 and then I ended up working in his office and then I worked with my local Boys and Girls Club and I worked with the National Crime Prevention Council, and I got bitten by this bug of somewhere between policy and working in the social sector. And before I knew it, I had this great opportunity to influence the issues that I cared about and I was influencing them without running for political office. I then got to work for some of the best politicians of our time. I get to work for President Biden, I got to work for President Obama. I got to work for Congressman Neil. And I realized that those people need people and those people need folks to run their agencies and nonprofits need strong leaders. And so I think it just goes to show that there is a role for everyone to play.
(25:09):
And I've just fallen in love with this path that I've been able to take and elected office hasn't been something that I've come back to.
Ted Roosevelt (25:15):
Candidly, just because of my family's relationship to politics, it comes up. People ask me that question all the time as well. And it's a dirty space and there's a lot of reason not to want to be engaged in politics right now. And at the same time, I think I have a similar view that you do, which is I really want to see good people run for office. It's probably not going to be me, but we really do need to see more people getting engaged in the political system right now.
Michael D. Smith (25:41):
I think it is a calling, and for me right now, that's not me. But I am so grateful. I am so grateful for the folks that we're seeing getting inspired and jumping in today.
Ted Roosevelt (25:53):
Well, Michael, I'm grateful for you and for your effort to stay in public service and to do the work that you're doing because as we've heard today, it's just so critically important and it is this beacon of light in the federal government in a moment where it doesn't feel like there are a lot of beacons of light coming out of DC. And I'm really grateful to hear your story and hear the story of AmeriCorps because they're really doing—both of, you're both doing great work right now.
Michael D. Smith (26:19):
I just think for folks that are listening, the wonderful thing about AmeriCorps is no matter what your issue is, we have a path for you to serve your community. It doesn't matter if you're 18 or 80 or in anywhere in between. We're also seeing a lot of career shifters, people that are at 55 saying, you know what?
(26:37):
I don't want to spend the next 10 years as the legal secretary. I want to go work in my kid's school. And so we have a way that you can get an on-ramp, you get a living allowance, you get an education award, you get an opportunity to serve your community and all sorts of different hours. There are some AmeriCorps members that are working pretty much like a full-time job. There are some that are working as little as a hundred hours a year. For folks that are listening, if you care about the challenges that your communities are facing and you want to do something about it, I encourage 'em to go to americorps.gov and we will get you on the path.
Ted Roosevelt (27:08):
Michael, we ask everybody that's on this podcast, two questions at the end, and I'm going to be really curious to hear your answers because I think you have a unique insight. What is one action that you would encourage listeners to take?
Michael D. Smith (27:23):
I think the most important thing, especially in the technology driven world that we are all living in today, is get to know your community. So many people drive or commute to work and go to sleep. Go meet your neighbors, go down to those school board meetings, go and check out what's happening in your local community centers. I think the first thing we need to do is get educated, look beyond ourselves. And then after you do that, I think that then gives you an opportunity to see that there might be a role for you. But I think more and more we are disconnected from the places where we live, and I encourage folks to reconnect.
Ted Roosevelt (28:02):
So the second question that we ask everybody is really around an organization. What is an organization—I'm going to ask you not to say AmeriCorps just because it's too obvious here—but what is one other organization that you would encourage folks to support, to check out, to learn a little bit more about? Or you can say AmeriCorps, if that's a requirement in your role as the CEO of AmeriCorps.
Michael D. Smith (28:26):
I bleed AmeriCorps blue. [laughter] I cannot not say AmeriCorps. And the reason why I think AmeriCorps is the organization that I pick is because we are the fuel of the social sector. Boys and Girls Clubs of America, the Habitat for Humanity, YouthBuild, City Year, all of these organizations that are the life's blood of their communities will tell you, their leaders will tell you that they rely on the purpose-driven, proximate, passionate people power that comes through AmeriCorps. And so that's why I have to mention AmeriCorps because service is—it's the fuel to our democracy. It is the pathway for us to make a difference no matter what issue you care about.
Ted Roosevelt (29:11):
Well, there's no question from this conversation that AmeriCorps is just a critically important, maybe underappreciated organization in the federal government. And it's been a real pleasure getting the chance to talk to you. Michael. This is a great story. You're a great story, and I am really pleased and honored to have the opportunity to shine a light on what you're doing.
Michael D. Smith (29:34):
Ted, thank you for what you do. Thanks for lifting up the work, and I'm excited about continuing to find ways to partner together.
Ted Roosevelt (29:40):
Awesome. Thank you very much. This has been a great conversation. Really.
(29:46):
Thank you, Michael. It is a joy to hear your unending enthusiasm for community service. Listeners, I hope you take his message to heart and get out in your communities now, even in small ways like helping a neighbor or planting a tree. And I hope you also enjoy listening to Good Citizen. If you do, please rate and review the podcast today. Good Citizen is produced by the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library, in collaboration with the Future of StoryTelling and Charts & Leisure. You can learn more about TR's upcoming presidential library at trlibrary.com.